An Intercontinental Conversation

If you’re like me you’d probably like to have a better understanding of how the rest of the world views America and Americans. Information from the media is virtually nonexistent. There is simply not enough space in the media to cover Anna Nichole, American Idol, global warming and the Hillary/Barack hustle. These matters require our full attention and the nearest the media gives us to a European view is Paris Hilton. Even if one supplements his sources with the BBC he finds a certain bias in play there as well.

We are fortunate, therefore to have a few outsiders at Blogster who are or may be willing to broaden our insights. One of these is ‘mjhammer, an Austrian man with whom I’ve begun having an exchange that I hope will benefit persons on both sides of the pond.

Your input is welcome as well.

My responses are pointed by asterisk.

Dear Nobullthinker,

Thank you very much for your reply. I am sorry to have you wait so long, but I have a troubled month behind me including a flooding of the house I live in and had practically no time to devote myself to blogging. I hope you can apologize. I hope you are still interested in our discussion. Since I replied to you in length now, I leave it up to you in which form you want to publish my reply. I am open to any suggestions, one of which i put below.

* I'm sorry to hear of your troubles and hope you have resolved them satisfactorily.

Your German seems very good: maximally 1 mistake only, depending on the point of view (Deutch is pronounced as Deutsch in German and written the same way, but if you say deutch in English it sounds the same as Deutsch in German). One of the things I like about the USA is that its people make a human connection with people they newly get to know. I think this is not only very kind; it also gives both of us a human side and helps to break the ice. Is it polite to ask how many generations your German ancestors go back? I myself spent 3 weeks in Annandale, VA, during high school and a my very friendly host family, the Yunkers, not only introduced me to as many sides of America as possible in the short time, but Mrs. Yunker herself also could speak some German (but she rarely did because our class was there to practise English).

* I will not be attempting to use the German language because the few words I know would hardly complete a sentence.
* My father's father was born in the U.S. but his father was not. My brother married a girl from Ochsenfurt (Pardon my spelling. I'm sure I botched it.)

I agree that a civilized discussion between European and American points of view is necessary, and think its even more important between citizens than between politicians – much could have been spared if American and European citizens could have had an open discussion before the outbreak of the Iraq-war. Even though it is impossible to do this in short, let me please try to summarize some aspects of the European discussion that I have often encountered, before I go into the actual business. As I see it, one thing in that the European point of view seems to differ from the American is that it merely discusses the degree of “evil” that the American government would currently represent: Points of view differ from seeing it as an aggressive imperialist scheme (ironically, US foreign policy increasingly led young people to turn on Marxist explanations and ideologies), or from simply assuming that Mr Bush and Mr Cheney their selves want to control natural resources worldwide, especially oil (very common, I think also in the US). Others see Bush merely as an idiot, because he wouldn’t even find Iraq on the map or makes funny orthographic mistakes in public speeches, and therefore as a puppet of the oil industry; some have resorted to conspiracy theories of all kind including that 9/11 would have been staged by the US government itself; as far as I know, this theory is also very prominent in Arabian countries; sometimes you find Freudian explanations: Bush didn’t really want to topple Saddam, but outperform his father; some, very few, have sadly even gone so far in their outrage over the war to start taking the side, verbally, and in the chat rooms only, of North Korea and Al Kaida: “as long as they stop these fascist imperialist killers”. I don’t know how much people talk this stuff in America itself, but in my surrounding its commonplace.

* I notice that in your list of reasons Europeans believe that the U.S. went to war in Iraq you do not include even the possibility that we went there to do good for the Iraqi people and the world in general. Why do Europeans so soon forget that we fought two great wars to stop the slaughter on their soil? Why have they become so cynical that they cannot even conceive of the possibility that our intentions are good? You have already given the answer to that question yourself. The socialist influences in your countries turn your citizens against the U.S. Your statement: "U.S. foreign policies increasingly led young people to turn on Marxist explanations..." puts the cart before the horse again. All U.S. policies can be turned for Marxist propaganda. It is an old trick that still seems to work very well in the old European mindset. But you must not forget that when we open the oil wells in Iraq vastly more of that oil goes to Europe than to America.
* I am amused by your comment about Bush's speaking problems. One of our Presidents that Europeans did like was John Kennedy. He was especially liked for a mistake he made in speaking German: "Ich bin ein Berliner" (“I am a pastry”). One needs to be more aware of what a man means to say than of the way he says it.

More modest views suggest that American society has been paralyzed by fear and that the government, by attacking Iraq, wanted to show strength and secure its re-election. Most agree that America wants to dominate the world, for better or worse (I think you might be irritated or surprised to read some of these discussions. If you are interested in a German-speaking newspaper with a sharp-tongued discussion of its articles, go to http://derstandard.at and click “Irak” or “Amerika”in the world news section. Usually there are many though comments on news articles in there. But let me also assure you that the voices that are the shrillest and loudest are seldom those that speak for the rest of us).

* I don't doubt that fear was a factor. Should it not be a factor? If England, France and the rest of its allies had shown a respectful fear of Hitler they might have taken the proper actions and perhaps 60 million lives would have been spared. Do you think that the possibility that Saddam was making nuclear weapons was not something to be feared?
* There were many reasons for going to war with Saddam but the American elections had nothing to do with it. The main factor is basic to see for anyone who is not blinded by his stubbornness or forgetful out of convenience. The U.N. drew lines that Saddam was not to cross under threat of war. When Saddam crossed those lines the U.N. could not or would not back up its threat. The U.S. could back it up and did.
*I don't plan to look into "Der Standard" but I thank you for the suggestion. Any time I wish to hear a hard line German point of view I can just call my brother. He's as hard headed a German as any you will meet in a brauhaus in Stutgart.


Actually no one seems to believe, as Americans do, that the US are defending their selves – people who say this are considered as naïve fools that have been brainwashed by US media and government propaganda, or quickly get attacked as heartless neocons that put profit over peoples lives. I think in America this would not be possible without being at least very impolite.Poland, The Netherlands, and the UK, seem more “Atlanticist” and therefore their point of view seems more close to that of the American public (as I perceive it).

* "Poland, the Netherlands and the U.K. are more Atlanticist...". Nonsense. The Poles, Dutch and British simply have better memories and have not forgotten the lessons of two wars. You will find the same to be true in the Normandy areas of France where the blood of men still nourishes the crops.

I will continue this above board at a future time.